Joaquin Phoenix Reflects on His Journey to Playing the Joker

Joaquin Phoenix has become synonymous with the Joker role for a new generation, especially after his award-winning performance in Joker (2019). But it seems the path to becoming Gotham’s most infamous villain wasn’t always straightforward. In a recent interview with Rick Rubin on the Tetragrammaton podcast, Phoenix opened up about his early discussions with Christopher Nolan regarding The Dark Knight and the impact Heath Ledger’s performance had on his own decisions.

A Missed Opportunity with Nolan

Phoenix revealed that he once had discussions with Christopher Nolan, director of The Dark Knight trilogy, about playing the Joker in the 2008 film. Reflecting on this, Phoenix shared, “It didn’t…wasn’t going to happen for several reasons. I wasn’t ready then.” He went on to explain that it wasn’t necessarily a matter of Nolan or himself turning it down directly, but rather an instinctive feeling. “There’s another person that’s going to do something that’s like, I can’t imagine what it would be if we didn’t have Heath Ledger’s performance in that film.”

Phoenix acknowledged that perhaps both he and Nolan realized he “wasn’t the guy” for the part at the time, a feeling that turned out to be prescient. Heath Ledger’s portrayal as the Joker became legendary, earning him a posthumous Academy Award and redefining the character for audiences and future actors alike.

The Joker Role Finds Phoenix a Decade Later

Phoenix’s turn as Joker didn’t come until over a decade later, with Todd Phillips’ film Joker, where he took on an entirely new interpretation of the character. Phillips approached Phoenix with the promise that Joker would feel more like an independent film than a major studio project, despite its budget. Phoenix noted how Phillips reassured him, saying, “There was no studio expectation…we’d be as ‘in control’ as we were on the indie films.” For Phoenix, who was accustomed to working on low-budget, character-driven films, this was an opportunity to explore a complex role with the resources to match.

With an initial budget of around $55 million, Joker was seen as a smaller project in the superhero genre, yet it quickly gained traction. It went on to become one of the surprise hits of the year, earning critical acclaim and success at the box office. Phoenix’s haunting portrayal of Arthur Fleck, the man who would become Joker, eventually won him an Oscar for Best Actor.

Ledger’s Legacy and Phoenix’s Take on the Joker

For Phoenix, Heath Ledger’s Joker performance was an undeniable influence, though not in a direct way. He shared how he felt that Ledger’s portrayal “was the right one for that film.” Ledger’s Joker had brought a level of depth, chaos, and complexity that reshaped the Joker’s image in popular culture. For Phoenix, the challenge was to reinterpret the character in a way that respected Ledger’s performance while making it uniquely his own.

Unlike Ledger’s Joker, who appeared fully formed as a mastermind in Nolan’s The Dark Knight, Phoenix’s version showed the origin story, diving deep into the character’s transformation from Arthur Fleck to the Joker. His portrayal was gritty, psychologically intense, and closer to a study of mental illness, a direction that set his Joker apart from Ledger’s and previous iterations of the character.

Moving Forward: Joker’s Success and the Sequel

Following the success of Joker, Warner Bros. greenlit a sequel, Joker: Folie á Deux, directed again by Phillips and bringing in a higher budget of $200 million. The film stars Lady Gaga opposite Phoenix, adding a musical twist to the Joker’s journey. The sequel was filmed with greater creative freedom, given the impact the first film had both commercially and critically.

Joaquin Phoenix’s journey to playing the Joker, from turning down the role in The Dark Knight to taking it up in Joker, reflects his commitment to finding the right story and context. His interpretation stands as one of the most compelling versions of the character to date, carrying both Ledger’s legacy and his own unique take on Gotham’s most notorious villain.